Joseph Haydn’s personality comes alive with stories about his exchanges with Beethoven and Napoleon. In part 2 of a 2-part series, discover how Haydn’s wit and loyalty affected his relationships and music in his later years.

In this episode, you’ll:

• Explore the relationship between Haydn and Beethoven

• Realize why Napoleon posted a “guard of honor” at Haydn’s house

• Appreciate the impact of Haydn's celebrated time in London

• Hear the shocking story of why it took 145 years to properly bury Haydn

For the best experience, please watch the video at the top of the page.

Episode Transcript and Timestamps

Grüß Sie from Vienna, Austria. Welcome to Classical Cake, the podcast where we discuss topics relating to Viennese classicism while enjoying one of Vienna's delicious cakes. I'm your host, Daniel Adam Maltz.

Thank you for joining us in part two of our discussion about the life of one of my favorite composers, Joseph Haydn.

My guest is Alexander Krakhofer, a historian who shares his knowledge as a culture ambassador for the city of Vienna. He works at the Haydn Geburtshaus (Haydn Birthplace) in Rohrau, Austria.

Haydn in London [0:43]

MALTZ: Let's move forward to about the year 1790. Prince Nikolaus died causing the next major shift in Haydn's life. Prince Nikolaus's son, Prince Anton the Second was less interested in music and disbanded the orchestra. Since Anton didn't need Haydn's services anymore, Haydn was free to travel. Haydn met a very important person, Johann Peter Salomon, and Salomon convinced Haydn to travel to London. These two trips that Haydn took to London were extremely successful. Why were these trips so important for Haydn's legacy?

ALEXANDER KRAKHOFER: Well, first we have to picture Haydn was more than 50 years old at the time he met Mr. Solomon or Mr. Solomon came to him. He wanted Haydn to go out to see the world. Probably, Mr. Solomon knew Haydn would have great success. He was a businessman after all. So he convinced Haydn, you should go to England. And Haydn said, ‘Mr. Salomon, I'm an old man. Why should I travel that far? I traveled from Eisenstadt to Esterhaza and sometimes to Vienna on occasion.’ And, he did not really want to start but, probably, Mr. Salomon, knew how to convince people. Well, that's part of any business, I guess. And so Haydn started this very interesting travel to London.

Well, imagine in a time where you only could get around with a coach, where the streets just were soil and stones and not very comfortable for traveling. Even the big and important streets were not. You needed quite a lot of time to just get halfway to London, not to forget the crossing of the channel. So it took roughly one month to get to the coast of France.

And, when Haydn saw the sea for the first time – he only knew the Lake Neusiedl which is quite a nice lake – but you see the ocean, the sea, and you see a harbor with sailing ships of a notable size, not only the boats of the fishermen, and he was just stunned.

And then they were sailing to England and he saw the Harbor of London – the biggest harbor of the time, the most important harbor in the world. And, under this kind of impression, he was instantly inspired to write some new music.

And I think this may have also been the point for Haydn himself to start enjoying that he traveled to London. And in London, he was not only welcomed, but he was really celebrated. He had his cheers and all the concerts were sold out, basically. And, as London was also the richest town on the planet… Well, they paid in good gold coins.

MALTZ: I think an important thing about this time is that even before Haydn started traveling to London, his fame was starting to become known in other places. And so, he wasn't a composer going a new land, unknown and trying to forge his way anew at 50 years old, or over 50. He was established and respected and in – many, many cases – a well-loved musician who was coming to an already won-over crowd.

KRAKHOFER: So true. Well, here, we have the situation Haydn forged into the world: My music is the language which the whole world can understand. Because he did not speak English, simply.

MALTZ: So, Haydn was the recipient of a great honor. I think it was the first trip and he became Dr. Haydn, doctor of music, which he was very proud of.

KRAKHOFER: Definitely. Well, he was busy when he was traveling in England and there were so many impressions coming to him. So many interesting people to meet. And at the court when he met the Prince of Wales – back then the Royal family was of the House of Hanover, so they spoke German – it was not too complicated to have a conversation together with the Prince of Wales or the King and Queen themselves.

And so the amazing offer was made to Haydn, ‘You should stay in England, you should become our court composer.’ When you're steeped in history, you know the English royalty have some relation with German-speaking composers. Think of Mr. Handel, for example. And so Haydn was offered the same.

And then he said something, which is also again, typical for him. He said, ‘I'm like an old tree, you can’t take me out of the ground where I have grown and put me somewhere else. I just would die off.’ So he was humble because it would have been the greatest honor. But he knew well England is really a nice place, but he had to go home. He wanted to go home, basically.

Relationship between Haydn and Beethoven [6:28]

MALTZ: So we've talked about the relationship between Haydn and Mozart and how important that was. The third very strong pillar of the Wiener Klassik (Viennese classicism) period is, of course, Ludwig van Beethoven. Haydn first met the young Beethoven in 1790 and, in 1792, Beethoven began taking lessons from Haydn. But, Beethoven being famously temperamental, they didn't get along.

KRAKHOFER: Well, the story is, as everything around Haydn, it's just interesting. But, it was in nowadays Germany at Bonn where Haydn and Beethoven came first together. The frame of this meeting was that one son of Maria Theresia, the Empress, was a Cardinal and it happened that Bonn was part of the place he ruled over.

And so, there was direct contact between Vienna and Bonn and Cologne and when Haydn got there, he made the promise, ‘Yes, I will take on the young Beethoven as my scholar’ and, shortly after, Beethoven showed up the first time in Vienna. But, Beethoven, had to go back very soon because, sadly, his mother had passed away.

For his second, and enduring stay in Vienna, Beethoven came to Haydn, they had lessons. But, by this time Haydn was over 60 years old. He had done no music teaching in years. But, he wanted to keep his promise because when Haydn promised something, he kept his promise. Young Beethoven, well, he was not only a different kind of personality, but he was also a completely different generation – around 1790 it's just one year after the French Revolution.

Beethoven was a little radical in his views. He admired what happened there. Of course, they did not know what would come out of this, like Napoleon and the Napoleonic Wars hadn't happened yet.

When Beethoven and Haydn came together, I think Beethoven admired Haydn. And, it's said the very early works of Beethoven, they're like a mirror of Haydn and Mozart's music, just worked through Beethoven's mind. And that's fascinating because Beethoven had the ability not only to take something from here and there and make something completely new and very powerful out of it.

Also, Haydn could see there was a genius. Another genius, like his good friend, Mozart. And Beethoven, like Mozart, was much younger than Haydn. Beethoven even more. Well, I think Haydn felt a little like a father figure. But, as it happens, fathers and sons always have quarrels. And so Haydn and Beethoven did. And, probably, it was not only the views Beethoven had on the French Revolution and probably the modern kind of political system to come up and Haydn being more like traditional growing up around Vienna with the court and all its people.

It was because Beethoven was… he wanted head through wall. And Haydn said you can't do that. Ludwig, you can't do that. It's just too much. It's too much for the audience and probably it's too much for the ears of many people who would listen to your music.

And I guess they had quite a lot of discussions, but like father and son discussions where they say, okay, what is your intention? What do you want to do? And somehow Beethoven kept the respect for Haydn all of his, also unfortunately short life, but working together did not work for too long.

Napoleon and Haydn [10:28]

KRAKHOFER: You mentioned the guards in front of [Haydn’s] house. This was right after Napoleon had his big victory over the Habsburg army and Napoleon sat there in the Schönbrunn Palace residing there, basically.

Haydn was not too happy about it, was mumbling around and playing the Emperor's [Hymn] he had composed some years earlier and he was not keeping his mouth shut.

So, he was saying quite bad things about Napoleon and I think Napoleon wanted to meet Haydn. And so, he sent some officers of – probably the Imperial Guard, it would have been – to Haydn and said ‘His Majesty [Napoleon Bonaparte] would to like to meet you.’ And Haydn said, ‘No. This short man with his big head, I won't see him.’

I guess the words were not too friendly at all and somehow the officers had to explain to Napoleon that Mr. Haydn would not see the emperor. So, Napoleon sent two guardsmen to guard the front of the house. It was more like house arrest but, officially, they put it as a Guard of Honor.

MALTZ: Written history is different than the truth sometimes.

The Emperor’s Hymn in Austria and Germany [11:53]

You mentioned the Emperor's Hymn. I'd like to talk a little bit more about this. This was very special piece to Haydn that he wrote late in his life. And this piece of music has a very interesting history, both in Austria… and Germany.

KRAKHOFER: Yes, that's true. The Emperor's Hymn of course, was inspired, by the older God Save the King of England, but what he made of it, not only the anthem (hymn), but also the Emperor's quartet. It's just like something big is coming up and that's the intention behind it, because Haydn put his picture he had of the power and the importance of the monarch into this piece of music.

MALTZ: It's very effective as an anthem. And what I think is interesting about its history is how everything has radically changed after the end of the Second World War and how Germany basically usurped this tune and put it to their own cause. And it is still the tune to ‘Deutschland Über Alles,’ their anthem.

KRAKHOFER: Yes, sadly. Well, I can tell you as I see it… please Germany give back our anthem. [Laughter]

And, of course, as it is in politics, this anthem was used in dark times – 20th century. We know what had happened with Germany and the rest of Europe and the world, basically. I never understood why Germany, the democratic Germany, kept this anthem, which never was theirs. And I never understood why Austria wouldn't take it kind of back. But, nonetheless, the Mozart anthem we have now is also a very beautiful piece of music. So no complaints there.

The shocking 145-year journey to Haydn’s final resting place [14:11]

MALTZ: Okay, so let's talk about the end of Haydn's life. Joseph Haydn died in 1809 and a memorial service was held at the Schottenkirche where Mozart's Requiem was performed. Unfortunately, the story is not quite over for this deceased Haydn, for his body.

KRAKHOFER: No, now we come, well this is kind of a Halloween story.

Men with lanterns and black coats came, during the night. Maybe it was even raining, you can imagine. You can picture it. And, they just dug out his grave with shovels and then they open the coffin, which was, of course, made of wood. And you have deceased Haydn in there, probably not very fresh anymore and they take his head. We don't know exactly who were the people who stole it, but it's known what happened to the head of Haydn after it was stolen. Of course, then only the bony part of the head was left over, not to get too morbid. A man named Nepomuk Peter was the man who had the head stolen, so he was behind it and he wanted to find out… or to research about the genius of Haydn.

There was a thing called (Phrenology). Basically this says any head of a genius or any head will have certain structures to be found in front and the middle of whatever part of the head, which will show, well, this part of the brain was bigger or whatever they thought back then. They wanted to research that. Today, this would not be scientific in any way, but this was 200 years ago.

The second man to own the head of Haydn was a man called Rosenbaum and then a man called Peter and from Mr. Peter, it was passed on to a Dr. Haller who was to be a known physician in Vienna. And this Dr. Haller passed the head on to a Dr. Rokitansky, who was also well known in Vienna. And, from this Dr. Rokitansky, the head of Haydn was given to the Society of Friends of Music – Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde – in Vienna, which was actually already intended two generations earlier, but never happened, for some reason. During all the time the head of Haydn was kept in kind of a wooden shrine with glass to keep it free of dust.

And in 1954, not too long after World War II had ended, some, well, interesting people, I'd call them, found we need a symbol for the newly-gained freedom of Austria. It was like shortly before the Staatsvertrag, which made Austria fully free again. And they said Mr. Haydn must be reunited with the rest of his body. So they referred to his head, of course. The rest of Haydn's body had been reinterred in Eisenstadt in the tomb of the Bergkirche.

They decided not only to reinter the head of Mr. Haydn, but to give him his last and greatest show. Well, they made like a [procession] for a funeral and they visited all stations of Haydn's life. With the car, Haydn's head, then on a red satin pillow was held by a famous artist with funny white hair. If you see the pictures, you will know what I mean. He looked kind of Einstein a little.

They even came back to the birth house of Haydn in Rohrau where they carried around the head of Haydn around the house. Let's have a last look, Joseph, where you have been born. And all streets were full of people, like even outside the village, the people were standing, were cheering, were waving the flags in red, white and red, which are the colors of Austria.

And at the end, Haydn's head was brought to Eisenstadt where they had a big requiem with the federal president with the Landeshauptmann, which is the head of the local government of Burgenland, and all the people of the church. And, finally, Haydn found his last resting place with the rest of his bones, fortunately. And I hope he has found his peace, but I think he already had when he did his last breath.

MALTZ: And we hope that he remains now complete.

Well Haydn's journey during his lifetime from poor disgraced choirboy to Europe's most celebrated composer is certainly captivating.

Thank you, Alexander, for joining me today. You were able to provide some great insight into this still very inspiring man.

KRAKHOFER: Thank you for having me here.

MALTZ: Thanks for sharing this Classical Cake with me.

Recommended resources [19:35]

To learn more about Joseph Haydn's life, you should visit the Haydn Geburtshaus in Rohrau, Austria. It is an important place to visit for anyone who has an interest in Haydn. It was so special to him that it is said that when Haydn returned to Rohrau after his first visit to England, he was so moved that he knelt down and kissed the threshold of the house.

The next time you see a portrait of Papa Haydn, I hope that you are able to pick up on the twinkle of personality behind his eye.